SquawkRadio Comments

Christina, I don’t really find a lot wrong with romance novels today. Sometimes a book just doesn’t catch my interest, a case in point, a vampire series by a much loved author here ( I will not name names, I don’t want to hurt her feelings), I did not like the first one. Couldn’t tell you why, it just did not catch my interest. I didn’t finish it. BUt when the next one came out, I did not hesitate but picked it up anyway, because I love her. This one I devoured. In one day. It was great!
I’m not the most articulate person, sometimes I have a hard tim putting my thoughts into words. For me, something about a book I love touches me, whether it’s the cover, the setting, or the characters. The one thing that will make me throw away a book (and this has only happened to me2 times) is if one or both of the characters dies. No matter how it’s presented, that is not an HEA.
I can even live with waiting to the end of a series to see all the connected characters get their HEA, but at some point, there must be one. If there’s not, what’s the point?
That’s what I read a romance for, whether it’s historical, futuristic, paranormal..Sorry if I was rambling.....

Lil

My biggest complaint is finding stories that have strong emotional intensity, which to me renders a good story unforgettable.  Don’t get me wrong, I love the hot sex, and some of the suspense and even paranormal elements, but so many of the books I’ve read get lost in the action and there’s not a lot of tension or strong emotion between the couples.  I find myself going all “meh” on these books. 

This is disappointing to me because I love to re-read, and I’m finding I’m re-reading less newer books and going back to old favorites from 5 years ago or more.  I think a lot of newer books are too “busy” and don’t really touch my heart. 

FYI: JR Ward is an exception to this because hello?!  who didn’t just melt when Z and Bella kiss that first time?  OMG, now that was hotter and more emotional than sex scenes I’ve read from other authors.  I feel the connection in her couples, even in Butch & V.  Good stuff, Maynard.

Boy, are we articulate this morning!  I think you nailed it on the head as far as reviews go, both amateur and professional.  It’s not that I don’t respect the reviewers’ opinion or don’t want them to share those opinions with others.  But I don’t necessarily need to read them because I can’t create with someone constantly looking over my shoulder.  And I can guarantee that those voices will get into your head and your subconscious and start to affect your writing. 

If I “fix” the thing that one reviewer hates, it may be the very quality about my work that another reader/reviewer loves.  So I ascribe to the Ricky Nelson theory of writing--"Ya can’t please everybody so ya gotta please yourself.” I also have a Michael J. Fox mantra taped over my computer, “Whatever anybody else thinks about me is none of my business.”

Exactly, Theresa! It’s funny, I’m not normally so verbose in the early morning, but I started to type and it all just came gushing out, lol.
I agree, you can’t let what someone else thinks about what you write go to your head. On the bad side, you might get so paranoid that no one will like what you write that you can’t write at all or (and maybe worse) on the good side, your head might swell so big you couldn’t get through the door anymore! either thing is def not good!

I missed you and the other squawkers, I’m sorry I haven’t been back!

Lil

Good writing is good writing. I may not always love, love, love the plot and characters, but Squawker books are on my auto-buy list. Even when you’re not “perfect,” you’re a whole lot better than most.

I occasionally read Amazon reviews but pretty much pay no attention to them. I have never been tempted to write one, because reading taste is so personal. I imagine it’s smart not to look at reader reviews, but how about “professional” ones? How do you thicken your skin when someone is less than kind? Have you ever had a review where you thought, “Yup, I shouldn’t have done X but Y instead” and learned something from the criticism?

We’re so glad you’re back, Lil!  I have the feeling Xtina is going to be inspiring a lot of “verbosity” this morning

Lol, Hope that’s a good thing! 

It seems reviewers are double minded. In one way, they want authors (or any artists for that matter) to stay “true” to their voice. In another breath, they will criticize up and down that the artist is following ‘fashion’. I think readers/viewers can tell when an author has not hit the mark. The story lags, the characters are predictable, etc…
In such a subjective mode, books, let’s face it, some will never like the romance mode, ever. 
I don’t believe there are formulas, I’ve read great romance with no HEA..(Romeo and Juliet, anyone), it doesn’t matter, as long as the story and characters make you CARE what happens. If you don’t, you put it down.

If I’m checking out a new author that I haven’t read before I will read the reader reviews, but unless the majority of them give the book a poor rating, I just disregard them.

Now if I’m looking to buy a new diet book or how to book, then the reader reviews are very important to me.

Christina - just love your feisty spirit! I look for recommendations from other readers mostly thru blogs like this. I don’t look at reviews or pay attention to stuff from blogs that trash authors, especially after reading a review of a book that I loved from one of my favorite authors, Linda Howard. Now this trashy beeyotch went on and on about how horrible this book was (and she did have a couple of points) but she completely turned me off and I never visited their site again.

I’d like to see her try to write a good novel - wench. As for what I like in books - it all comes down to great characters that have you wrapped up in their story. I’m not a fan of vampire novels, but will concede to JR Ward’s work. I think this blog & others is the best place to talk about the books we love and why we love them. Visiting each other’s sites is great & I love authors that promote other authors - so thanks ladies for talking about your books and others. And Christina - Like Teresa said, keep that Michael J Fox quote in mind - there are plenty that love ya out there!

I think my biggest pet peeve is drawn out dialogue. I LOVE to read dialogue and I want to know what the main characters are saying AS MUCH AS what they are thinking. When I say drawn out, I mean that A makes a statement to B and then there are two pages of internal conflict/debate before B makes a response. That wears me out. I understand the need and desire to get into the heads of the characters, but I think some authors go a little over the top.

The other peeve is for an action to immediately be followed by a catch phrase. I remember reading one book (and I honestly don’t remember who it was) where almost every thought had a catch phrase behind it giving a greater example of what the author meant. I thought I was bright enough to understand what was being said without the additional words, which really just felt like additional words. It reminded me of my college term papers where I just started to expound a point to get the paper to a certain length without actually putting any new information into the work.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with romance novels today.  Some are better than others, but that is mostly based on my personal taste. 

There have been only two or three books I couldn’t finish.  If the characters do something totally stupid and out of character I get disgusted and put the book down.  I just finished a book, not a romance, where the otherwise A+ FBI agent started behaving in a way no self respecting FBI agent would behave all because he was doing his thinking below the waist.  The author totally lost me.

One plot device that I really don’t like is separating the hero and heroine for years.  Eloisa did a great job with this plot line with Helene and Rees, but she is one of the very few who can pull it off.  And why does 9 years seem to be the magic number?  I’ve read at least 3 books where it was 9 years.  Five years is too short and decade is too long, its like Goldilocks looking for just the right amount of time for people to be unhappy before they earn their HEA.

There is nothing wrong with romance writing today.  In fact I love it there is such variety out there.  If you can’t find something you like you are not looking hard enough.

It’s all about the writing for me too.  I hate the question “What type of romance do you read?” I read them all.  I follow writers not trends.  I am always eager to try a new writer but only on recommendations from those I trust to have similar taste or when an author is getting alot of buzz or if I can get if from the library or on loan so I can sample first.  Anthologies have also brought me new (to me) authors.

An example, I discovered Ms. Kleypas in “Three Weddings and A Kiss” which I bought because of K. Woodiwiss.  After reading Lisa’s story I was hooked and gobbled up everything I could find.

Pet peeves would be things like character development - if the relationship is rushed (not talking long courship here but emotions) or inconsistencies in the timeline just to make it fit.

Bodice ripping doesn’t even bother me if the period is right.  I love strong women but let’s face it.  Women have only been “equals” for a couple of years when you look at the whole picture.  When done right it works.

Make me laugh, make me cry and make me fall in love - that is all I ask.  (not much huh?!)

Ohhhh, I’m glad I’m going to be at the computer all day becasue I intend to spend the day reading the comments. And clever Christina, not “what DO you want” but “what DON’T you want” in a romance novel. I’m already nodding on several point, the dialogue extensions, the “catch phrase” explanations, emotional intensity…

I sometimes read reviews and then subject myself to the Squawk Scolding when I confess. Terri is so right, nothing freezes your hands over the keyboard so much as trying to make everyone love you.

I have to agree with Stacy:  I look for a connection between the hero & the heroine. That they actually LIKE each other even when they DISLIKE each other and are total opposites for whatever reasons.  Stephanie Laurens(Bastion Club) and Susan Elizabeth Phillips always, to me, make that connection.

I can honestly say that I do not pay any attention to book reviews. “Reviews, you don’t need no stinkin’ reviews.” I would rather have a book recommended, by someone, who read the book and that has similar tastes in reading. I have favorite authors that I just automatically on sight. In whatever category. For a new author, I will read the back cover and if it interests me, I just buy it. If it’s good then I’ll be sure to note it to be on the look out for their next book.  If it’s bad, I won’t look out for the next one unless someone recommends their next effort.

Christina, you write some of the HOTTEST SEXY men around.  I have to honestly say that sometimes I forget all about the heroine because I just concentrate on the hero. To be fair to your heroines, I do love and like the “Princesses”.  They are my favorites.

There has only been one romance novel I didn’t finish, won’t name names here, but I just found it such hard work, slogging through with very little reward.  I’ve been trying to pin down what it was about the book turned me off and I’ve decided it was that I just didn’t care about the characters.  They were one dimensial and unlikable, I didn’t care if they had their HEA, if they would be seperated, yet again, by a conflict that could be solved by a simple explanation. 

Novels don’t need to have action, intrigue, exotic locales or even inventive sex to keep my attention, devices which I feel are sometimes used to keep up the word count.  A writer should be confident enough to have their characters stand alone.  I just have to like the characters, is that too much to ask?? 

My code is voice83, quite appropriate. 

I’ve only gotten to the point where I’d quit reading a book a few times. These are deal breakers for me:

Stilted dialogue (especially for men - I have a lot of male friends and I’ve never ever heard one call another boy-o....)

Cardboard characters - nothing that fleshes them out, shows me their imperfections and realism - Perfect men for example

Too stupid to Live women. ‘Nuff said

Sex scenes without emotion - Some writers can write HAWT scenes that actually have little of the act in them.

Totally improbable situations - give me some credit for a few brain cells

What do I want - a totally HOT hero that I can fall in love with. Not perfect, but strong and willing to fight everyone & give everything for his lady love.

What don’t I like? What a loaded question! I’m a book slut, I’ll read pretty much anything I love being swept away in a story, laughing out loud, crying buckets of tears, rolling over and pouncing on DH after a great sexy read (like last night - thanks to Xtina and TIHH) and wondering how they are going to find their HEA.

I hate books with endless dialogue and not enough introspection - and I hate books that overthink and tell us too much. I hate spending hours on backstory - and I hate books that are so centred on the H/H that it is as if they live in a bubble with only the bare minimum of family and history behind them. Most of all, I want the characters and politics and history to be multidimensional and not always logical, but responsible for their own lives, not just swept along by events. But I’m not picky about how that happens.

Oh boy. My problem with reviewers:

1. They are self-proclaimed experts (and that is one of my biggest pet peeves in people)

2. If you can’t write something nice about someone don’t write anything at all. Its one thing to say “You know, I just didn’t care for this book and this is why...” but to go on Amazon or BN and just bash an author is WRONG. If you hated it that much send the book to the UBS and move on.

3. When they don’t have a clue what they are talking about. ie. Did the reviewer even read the book? There is a certain prolific reviewer that I shall leave nameless that I would just like to choke everytime I read their reviews. They reviewed one Squawkers book and it was like they read a completely different book than I did. And no, the book wasn’t open for that much interpretation.

*sigh*

Kim, not a big fan of reviewers and NEVER listens to them for her choices in book buying.

Personally I don’t think there’s anything with romance writing today.  It all depends on the individual readers’ taste.  What appeals to “Jane” in New York City may not appeal to “Sara” in Iowa or “Judy” in Colorado. 

Case in point, me and my SIL.  Both of us are avid romance readers.  When we swap books half the time the books that really appealed to me, she’d think were so-so and vise versa.  It’s nothing against the writer’s abilities, it is totally a matter of opinion.

As for reviews, the few reviews I’ve read about a books have usually been opposite of how I felt about the books so I’ve quit reading them.  I try to find people with similar taste, like my fellow Squawkees, and go with what they recommend which is almost always wonderful.

If I don’t like the characters and can’t fall in love alongside the hero & heroine, I guarantee you I won’t like the book.

I’ve been mulling this one over all morning long (and I’ve tried to be as honest as I can). 
I’m just not sure if writers can make a list of “don’t wants,” avoid every item, and really hit it with the next book. 

I agree with several that the writing is key, that drawn-out dialogue is boring...but you Squawkers are already beyond this list.  You’ve gotten to the point where you don’t sacrifice story for other things, no matter how good the writing is, etc...and yet you must admit sometimes you nail it and sometimes you don’t.  However, you wouldn’t be where you are without nailing it more often than not. 

The books you nail though, it’s like something magical happens with the chemistry that not even you all can control (because if you could, every book would be your best). 

This is a tough question. When thinking about my favorite Squawk books, however, they do share some universal threads. 

1) originality/something fresh
Ex (I’ll use you Christina, since you ask the question):  a) Ian, and b) your hero who dressed so flamboyantly, his father told him he looked like a bruise.

cont’d below

2) That un-measurable magical quality between the H/H, and I have no idea how to tell you what you need to do to make it happen either.  It’s those books that make me groan and twitch, because though I’ve read a thousand sex scenes, I’m INVESTED in theirs. 

And lastly,

3) I have to like the H or the H.  They have to have some blatant human quality--some down-to earth flaw to which I can relate.  I also like it when one of characters is a little quirky, perhaps a little eccentric--that too gives them a human quality that makes me think, “Well, if THEY can get their HEA, there’s hope for everyone.” I guess I like my fantasies believable.

When I’m less enthused about a book it is because I sometimes feel as if the author doesn’t love the story they’ve written.  Perhaps they did not connect with one or more of the characters or perhaps there was pressure from their publisher/editor/agent to “get it done”, I don’t know, but I can always tell and, if the disconnect is severe enough, I will put the book down.

The one book I threw across the room was because the sex was more important than the character development and plot.  I love sex in my novels as much as the next person, but unless I am strictly reading erotica, I expect my romance novels to make me, the reader, into each and ever character that walks into the story.  I want to be the heroine, I want to be the hero, hell, I want to be the scullery maid pinched by the villain.

Continued . . .

I want twists and turns, a new-ness, a crispness of a story, even if it’s one I’ve heard before.  If it’s a romantic comedy, throw in some seriousness that I may not expect.  If it’s a thriller, break it up with an unexpected humorous scene.  And sometimes, I even want to be uncomfortable by a character or a situation just so I can experience the evolution as I keep reading.

Tilt me on my axle.  Mess with my equilibrium.  Entice me to step out of my reality and keep me there until I see the last period in the last chapter and I can finally sigh with satisfaction.

Deb

I do read reviews, but good or bad, they don’t sway my decision to buy or read a book.  I read a 1 star review once and the reviewer kept going on and on about why she hated this book - the plucky “virgin” heroine, the alpha wounded male, and how if she read one more road romance she’d shoot herself and can’t authors do anything different, etc, etc.  Well, I happen to like all those things and I got the book!  And I liked it.

These publishers looking for the next big thing (vampires, Navy Seals, hotter sex, etc.), aren’t looking in the right direction.  All I want is a good story with emotional impact about two people that I care about.  I really don’t care if it’s the same old, same old.  If an author is good, there’s always something a little different about it.  I’ll read historicals until I can’t read anymore.  I like them.  I like viscounts, dukes, governesses, balls, rakes, class issues, and yes virgins!

Ah!  But you should read the reviews of Mister Quickly on Amazon, even if you’re not interested in buying the item.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2752XIGJY2YH6/ref=cm_cr_auth/104-2052816-1525514?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview

I have a hard time finishing a romance, because so often I find I just don’t CARE about the characters. Any poor writing results in a wall banger, and historically error-ridden books end up in the recycle bin.

I’m curious to see if the explicit sex requirement in every book is a trend or here to stay. I think it’s often used as a substitute for character/relationship development. I’d like to see more books where the sex is intense, central to the relationship, but less of a “he did this to her Slot A and she licked his Tab B.” Janet Mullany’s “Dedication” was just about perfect in that, and most other, regards. I know this goes against the current trend of longer and more frequent sex, but it just doesn’t appeal to me anymore. I wonder if as we Baby Boomers age we won’t want to read about sex in so much gruesome detail.
to be cont. 

martha

continued…

I want to watch, delighted, how a relationship develops. I want dialogue that is entertaining and psychologically dense. I want more than wallpaper for historical accuracy. And yes, I have been rereading a lot of Georgette Heyer.

martha

Thanks to this site I’ve branched out and read contemporaries, romantic suspense and even vampires!  The common thread between all the books I’ve read is that the romance is first and foremost and it have a HEA.

What I don’t like in my romances and what I’m finding more and more is that the relationship is relegated to second place among all the intrigue and world building!  I’d like for the relationship to be first.  I read a romantic suspense that was way too suspenseful and not as romantic as I would have liked.  Three quarters of the book centered on the psychopath villain.  I don’t mind other relationships in the story (between siblings, friends, buddies, family members, etc.) but I’d like the romantic one to be front and center.  I also want a HEA.  If I want reality I’ll watch the nightly news.

Once upon a time....
I believed in book reviews. That was before I met the book A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius. To risk being called a charlatan, I hated it. And I thought everyone who gave it a glowing review did so because the book professed itself to be a ‘work of staggering genius.’ Sort of an Emperor’s New Clothes syndrome. Not to step on any toes…

I am a regular girl with a high iq, I think that applies to 99.9% of the Squawkers (because there has to be at least one guy on here), and I read to be entertained. Because grocery shopping, bill-paying, tax-acounting, diaper-changing and vacuuming are not the entertaining life everyone swore that a high iq would secure.

I don’t want characters who aren’t regular girls (and guys)- I want to relate - with decent iq scores - stupid is frustrating. I don’t want characters who crash into bed on page 40 (although I admit, some have made it work) because easy is boring. And I don’t want men who can only express the depths of their emotions by checking your transmission fluid. I get enough of that at home.

I think I’ve written one negative review--it was a medieval book (circa 1305) and the heroine had a child (a bastard child she claimed as her own, but wasn’t actually her own because she was a virgin).  I couldn’t read past the first chapter--and yet, I had a dissertation on why the book didn’t work.  (Right.)

I can handle “wallpaper historicals"--that’s fine, but you have to make it believable--or have a compelling writer’s voice to pull off bad historical detail.  CHARACTER MATTERS.  You Squawkers have nothing to worry about--you guys are certainly full of character.

That is my one and only visible negative review.  I’ve had other OPINIONS on books, but frankly I’m aware that you can’t please everyone.  Plus...that’s the thing with anonymous reviews--you can say every hateful thing you want and never post your name.  It’s like a random act of violence via the internet...what the heck did this writer ever do to you?

I’d like to say I’m sorry for my anonymous hate review about that book from like 10 years ago, but frankly, I still think it’s bad.

Okay.  Here’s what makes me crazy:  Believe it or not, too much sex!  I mean, I like orgasms just like the next person, but I think sometimes some romance writers mistakenly believe that as long as they throw in these magnificant sex scenes with the throbbing organs, then, by golly, the senseless readers will be appeased.

I’m looking for substance.  I’m looking for a plot and a relationship that knocks my socks off to the point that when the “obligatory” sex scenes occur, they actually make sense and I’m ready for them.

I guess to sum it up, lots of people write romance today, but FEW, in my humble opinion, write it WELL.  That’s why we are so devoted to you, dear Squawkers.

Thanks for this, Christina! I really needed it. I just finished proofing my first galley pages, and. . . Ohmigawd, ohmigawd, ohmigawd, I want to re-write the whole book and people will be reading it soon, and the reviews will start coming in and. . . OHMIGAWD!

But I’ve got to put on my big girl pants and not worry! I’m sure I won’t even read the Amazon reviews. PAH-hahahahaha!

I’ll bookmark this page and come back to it when the reviews start coming. Some people will love it and some will hate it and it will all be lovely.

Long time lurker, first time poster here. I want to agree with Pamela that sometimes the sex gets to be too much in a lot of romances these days. I’m not a prude, but I think sex takes the place of actual character development at times. The thing that draws me to a romance (and makes me a repeat buyer for certain authors) is strong writing.

I enjoy the writers on this blog a lot, but to make it less personal I’ll compare two writers who are very different but consistently excellent as far as I’m concerned.

The first writer who I think is just fabulous is Carla Kelly. She writes “regencies” but they rarely involve the typical simpering misses and noble lords. Instead, she can wring your heart out and make you love the characters with no more “action” than someone laying his head upon a woman’s breast and falling asleep. On the other hand, I also love Anne Stuart who can write gritty, contemporary romances filled with hot sex—but still can wring your heart out. I will automatically pick up both of their books because I know that I will get strong writing, intelligent plotting and a writer who respects the reader.

Great discussion!

Okay, Christina, I gotta ask - did you put the Fart button at the bottom of the survey or did the survey company do that?

What do I NOT want in a romance? I agree with those who said unrealistic dialogue can be irritating, but super-obvious-incredibly-irritating infodump in the first few pages can definitely make a book a wall-banger for me. I prefer to feel as if I’m getting to know the characters—rather than have the heroine explain herself and her life story in a monologue (usually by talking to her pet goldfish—which she has had for years. Wouldn’t Goldy know her story by now?).

Another think I don’t want: super-specific, completely irrelevant details. ("She drove down Pine Street and turned west on Fifth. Her golden-hued hair fluttered in the brisk, slightly chilly breeze as she sipped Diet Coke through a straw inserted into her EZ-Gulp 44-oz. insulated mug.”—Something very similar to this prompted me to leave a book at the train station for the next poor schmuck.) I like details for atmosphere as much as anybody, but you darn well better not distract me from the story itself.

My two cents on what is wrong with romance today would have to be big business making decisions for authors and readers. We live in a world where the bottom line is money and the publishing houses want to make money (don’t we all) but I feel that sometimes our true selves are lost in the process. I am not an author and my impressions come from reading blogs and reviews and romance articles.
I attended a romance conference once where one of the discussions was is recency a dying genre? The discussion was very interesting. And my take on the subject was romance readers want to read recency but there is no money in it for the publishers.

continued below…

I really don’t like the f-word. I don’t think it’s sexy. And most of the time it isn’t neccessary. It pulls me out of the story.

So if I read in a review that the author uses it I probably won’t buy the book. I put to books back last week because they used the f word in the first chapther.

I’m with Martha and Ms. Hellion, upthread, in disliking ‘wallpaper’ instead of actual era-appropriate context. 

In fact, I dislike visible tick-boxing of pretty much every description.  ie:  A modern heroine, oh, here’s her gay friend, and there’s her crazy grandmother… now, wait for it, here comes the forced dialogue that’s supposed to be witty… bleah. 

It can be utterly sweet, like Eva Ibbotson.  It can be raw and powerful, like JR Ward.  But it has to connect.  And if a writer is just hitting marks, it shows.

I agree with Nina. Books that I don’t finish reading usually have very flat charcters and throw everything but the kitchen sink into the plot line. The focus should be on the relationship and how it develops, but not to the point that the characters seem overly obsessive in deconstructing their emotions.

As for Amazon reviews, I sometimes read them becuase I am out of the country and can’t peruse the books myself to see if I truly would like them. That being said, I’ve started to ween myself away from this habit and have started relying on this blog’s recomendations and those found on Eloisa’s blog. So far, I haven’t been disappointed!

As I read the comments, I wonder too, about the Endless Series..I love Sue Grafton mysteries, but I wonder, gee when she got to H , did she think, “Damn, 18 more books to the end?” I’m waning on Harry Potter, too, get on with it, already. Love the books, but let’s go. There are a few romance novelist that should have stopped at 3 or 4, I wonder if it’s sustainable?
-As much as I love the brothers, (and I do!) I hope JR Ward hasn’t painted herself in a corner with all the books planned for the series..? Doesn’t it get stale for the author? Just wondering..

I am not criticizing aurthors or publishers. I just wish that aurthors could write anything and everything that took their fancy whether there was a market or not. I think some of the best romances I have ever read felt like the author put her/his heart and soul into the book. I personally like angst and tears and heartbreak and a truely satisfing ending.
I really don’t like books where the hero and heroine hate each other through the whole book and then love each other for the last 3 pages. I invested a lot and I want a pay off. My truely favorite romances are the ones where the hero and heroine connect at the beginning of the book and through external conflict they relationship grows.

I think that was more than two cents worth......
AndreaH

Here’s the things that turn a romance novel into a wallbanger for me:

1) Heroine gets angry over nothing.

2) Hero treats the girl like an idiot for the entire book until the last two pages where he says he loves her.

3) Hero thinks the girl is an immoral slut even tho she’s been raised by her maiden aunt and goes to church every Sunday.  He’s shocked to find she’s a virgin.

4) Hero calls bad guy a scaliwag, when no man would be caught dead using that term.

5) Have sex before there’s any sexual tension.  Make em wait for it, I say!

I think there are a lot of excellent romance writers, so I don’t think there’s anything wrong with romance novels in general.  There’s just a few authors I avoid.  I admit to writing reviews on Amazon, but knowing what it takes to write a book, I NEVER give a bad review.  I’d rather give no review, than to give a bad one.

That’s my two cents worth, anyway.

I chose not alpha male enough. Usually this isn’t the case, but I picked up a book in which the hero was a 400 some year old vamp and when a female mortal was brought to help him solve a mystery, she chastised him for his lack of security. He basically dogged her heels, doing everything she said he needed to do.

Now, I’m all for a strong woman, but there has to be a strong man to. He didn’t even stand up to her. He might as well have been cowering in a corner somewhere. Bleh.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with romance novels in general but there are certain trends that I personally dislike.  I’m a strict one hero/one heroine kind of girl and I read romance novels mostly for escapism.  While I enjoy reality in my books as much as the next woman, I do not pick up a book to read about a woman with multiple partners or a man interested in a threesome, I don’t need to read a romance for that, you can find plenty of that in real life.  And while I like reading sex scenes in a novel, I’d like to feel they were put there more than just for shock value or for filler.  Not every chapter needs a sex scene.

Also, I need a HEA at the end of my books.  There is a trend lately in having ongoing series with one particular heroine (or hero) in all of the books and while there is nothing wrong with this trend its something I personally steer clear of because I just get bored with the same character over and over again.  I really don’t care to see what trouble she finds for herself in for “this time”.  Not only do you run the chance of too much repetition, at the end I’m left feeling unsatisfied because there was no closure to the story, no HEA.

The last thing that annoys me is when you’re in for a surprise in the book that you didn’t see coming.  I do read reader reviews but I don’t use their opinion of the book to base my own, I look for specific things in them that I avoid, like if they point out that there is a lot of graphic violence, nonstandard sex scenes (s&m, anal, group, etc.) or rape.

The focus should be on the relationship and how it develops, but not to the point that the characters seem overly obsessive in deconstructing their emotions.

I totally agree with you, Lilyfleur. I want internal conflict, all the way! But not internal whining.

I’m not a fan of the epic romance that spans years and continents. I usually find myself flipping to the next conversation between the hero and heroine.

I had to think about this one a bit. I’m going to restrict my comments to historicals since those are the ones I read the most (except for the contemps of historical authors).

Historical inaccuracies are my bete noir. Once in a while a slip-up here and there is not an issue, but consistently getting the titles incorrect, or over-familiarity with the servants, or a single woman (who isn’t a high flyer) living all by herself, or a medieval woman having a distinctly modern independence, or actual people in history doing things they never did and when they were long dead, and other such period details.

These historical details are easy enough to research and makes me feel that the author didn’t care enough about the story to make sure that she got these details right.

The other thing that bothers me is when there isn’t much of a story beyond: this is the hero, this is the heroine, they don’t like each (why?), they argue all the time over the silliest things, they have sex (why?), and by the time page 350 rolls around they’re passionately in love. Puhleez! This book not only hits the wall, but gets donated rather quickly.

cont…

cont…

I have to believe the integrity of the characters. I have to also believe that they’re falling in affection, friendship, and love with each other. The sexual tension needs to be there for me to believe in the sex. An emotional connection needs to remain between then during the sex act, an intimacy rather than a clinical exploration.

A caveat to all of the above is that if the book has good writing and a good story with characters who grab me by the heart and throat, all will be forgiven. At that point, I’m like who cares? I want to know what’s happening next. I care.

Loyalty to authors happens because they write books I enjoy and I like them. Go Squawkers!

As much as I grumble over certain story lines or plot devices, I don’t want a writer to write for me (that’s what fanfic is for ); I’d much rather a writer write his or her story… and whether or not the book works for a reader and to what degree is a matter of personal taste.  Not to say that reader response is useless, but I can’t imagine being able to please everyone.

Robin McKinley said (or wrote, rather)this once, somewhere, and it’s stuck with me: “What single thing would most improve the quality of your life? **That readers would learn the difference between ‘this book didn’t work for me’ and ‘this book sucks dead bears’.**”

Of course it doesn’t mean that the two are mutually exclusive or that one can’t know that something is perhaps not the best quality and still enjoy it, or vice versa.

Inaccuracies, mistakes, spelling/grammar errors sometimes fall under a separate category for me, though the authors I like tend to be meticulous about those things too.  This goes for all genres, and I don’t think is limited to romance novels today either.

And another thing...(boy, aren’t you glad you opened up this topic, Christina?)

I hate rushed endings.  There are some books I’ve read where it seems obvious the writer was hurried because of a deadline.  The last couple of chapters didn’t have the same flavor as the rest of the book and everything was wrapped up too quickly and neatly.

I’m sure the Squawker’s have never done this, but those other writers...well, you know how they are. 

Great blog.

I agree with a lot of what has already been said. A couple of things to add that I don’t like:

The heroine thinks she’s in love with someone else the majority of the book and then in the last few pages realizes she loves the hero.

Either the hero or heroine is married to someone else or both are married.

The hero treats the heroine so badly thru the entire book by calling her names, having her thrown in jail, humiliating her, etc and on the last couple of pages tells her he did it because he loves her. I’ve actually cried because they got together at the end of the book.

Sorry! Got to add one more. Make it a few things to add.

Characters who act like they’ve been together for 10 years when they’ve only known each other for 2 days.

This is a great blog, Christina.  I, for one, never pay attention to reviews.  There have been some scathing ones that say they are reviewing a book when they are really lambasting the author.  Well, honey, if you don’t like the author DON"T READ HER BOOKS!  Get over yourself.

I don’t think there have been many books that I found I couldn’t finish.  I too am a book slut and will try anything (only regarding books people, settle down).  This is not to say I haven’t done my share of rolling my eyes to the heavens wondering what possessed an author to write that book! 

I have a very open mind when I read a book, especially when I am reading those from an author who is trying something totally different from anything else they’ve written.  I welcome their desire to spread their wings because in the end, it’s their writing that I am most interested in.  How they play out a scene.  Why they chose to place key scenes (sexual or otherwise) in a particular part of the book.

"separating the hero and heroine for years”

Rats! I knew I would forget some obvious ones!

Some IMHO have done marvelously and I can hear their voice but with a wonderfully different tenor to it.  Some have not.  And it doesn’t mean they’ve gone from historical to contemporary but have tried different time periods or sub-genres.  I must be honest here and say that thus far the Squawkers have not let me down.

Grrrr...I lost the last brilliant piece because I went on and on!!  Sigh…

I love these answers. You guys are really helping me think about the books. Whenever you make a list of stuff you want/don’t want, I always smirk and pat myself on the back until you get to “Plot must follow a logical pattern” and then I stop smiling. I know that’s my downfall, and sometimes I get it right, sometimes I don’t, and sometimes I’ll be talking about my book to a friend and she’ll gently (or in Connie’s case, loudly and emphatically)point out that what I have doesn’t make sense.

I’m Christina Dodd. I have no logic.

Here’s the interesting thing about books—I have written a couple that I hated. Hated hated hated. Thought my career was over and I might as well register for that correspondence school that offers that class “Plumbing Your Way to Wealth.”

And you know what? The readers like these books. A lot.

Then I’ll write one that I think will set the world on fire, and readers like it. It’s okay.

And sometimes I write a book that I think is charming, interesting, not the best but by far not the worst, and readers hate it. Or they adore it.

There is no rhyme or reason to what works and what doesn’t. None. And I guess I’m glad.

This was the wrong blog to come to late in the day.  LOL!  Sorry if I repeat anything.

I have been reading romance forever it seems and in all that time, rarely if ever gave up on a book.  But, I tend to stick with select authors on whom I know I can rely.

I know it’s silly and it doesn’t make me not buy a book but these covers are so bad when they reflect nothing about the book or the characters.  I recently read a regency set book where the hero was portrayed on the cover wearing jeans.  I mean, come on.

I don’t like when I have been convinced through the entire book that something horrible happened in the heroine’s past that makes her do these TSTL things only to find that it was not all that horrible and actually was some silly misunderstanding.

What I want is to feel as if the H/H are not just lovers and madly in love but are friends.  Best friends.  That they can talk to each other out of bed and have a connection.  Every line of dialogue does not have to be wrought with sexual tension.  Sometimes you just want to feel like they understand each other and have a connection beyond the physical.

And I never read reviews.  Never have.

Victoria Dahl said..."Thanks for this, Christina! I really needed it. I just finished proofing my first galley pages, and. . . Ohmigawd, ohmigawd, ohmigawd, I want to re-write the whole book and people will be reading it soon, and the reviews will start coming in and. . . OHMIGAWD!”

Yeah, Victoria, I just finished the page proof for my paranormal and you know what? The OHMIGAWD never goes away.

Next up—copyedits coming today for the next book! ::thunk::

“a list of stuff you want/don’t want”

My issue with these sorts of lists is that it makes it seem like there’s a formula that’s supposed to work—and maybe there is one, but it seems to me, more often than not, that “rules” or “wants” can be (should be?) broken if the writing is convincing enough.  Or maybe I’m just easy and will suspend disbelief for nearly anything if I like the writing. 

MsHellion said..."I’ve written one negative review--it was a medieval book (circa 1305) and the heroine had a child (a bastard child she claimed as her own, but wasn’t actually her own because she was a virgin).  I couldn’t read past the first chapter--and yet, I had a dissertation on why the book didn’t work.”

MsHellion, thank you for your kind words about my books, but you just made my point. Everybody has their own opinion about a book and what works for one person doesn’t work for another, and sometimes an author hits with a reader and sometimes there’s just a horrible resounding thud as the book hits the wall. I say that because your description sounds incredibly like OUTRAGEOUS, which was my fifth book. Really, I swear I’m not offended, it happens!

I have one author whose work I adore, and after I was into her backlist, I read one book and realized that if I had read that one first, I would have never touched her again. I can still go into a rant about that book—and most people love it.

IrishEyes said..."Okay, Christina, I gotta ask - did you put the Fart button at the bottom of the survey or did the survey company do that?”

That was Connie.

I stopped reading a romance once when they killed the hero’s dog in the first few pages.  The thing that really bothered me was that nobody--not the hero or the heroine--seemed to care!

Then I tried to read a contemp by the same author a little while later and the serial killer killed the heroine’s cat in the first chapter so I stopped reading that one too.

What can I say?  It’s a definite pet peeve of mine!  (Stop snickering, Xtina.)

ms. Mary, you asked if a series can get stale for an author.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I write two kinds of series—one that’s open-ended (the governess series) and one that has a story arc thru the stories (Lost Texas Hearts, Darkness Chosen.)

The governess books work for me over and over because I’m dealing with a reality of the 19th century, that most young ladies had to work for a living, so I can tell their individual stories while loosely connecting them into the governess school. Any reader can hop into the middle of that series and read without being lost.

The closed-end series are tougher, because I think that by book three, if a reader steps into the world it’s going to be like starting to watch Lost in mid-season—there’s going to be a lot of bewildering precedents that have been set up in the previous books.

But I like to read both kinds of books, so for me, it’s not a matter of being trapped, but working with different formats. WHich of course some readers hate and some love.

Christina,

PFFFFBBBTTTTTTT!

(and *I* make that sound with my lips!)

It seems to me that a lot of books lately are focusing so much on trying to heat up the sex as much as possible and dazzle me with the most mysterious mystery or making the couple face extreme dangers that the relationship doesn’t get enough attention. 
I love all these elements, but I want to see why the heroine loves this man who can make her blood boil.  And why does the hero fall for a woman who isn’t his type and defies him at every turn? 
If the characters are going to act in a way that isn’t typical for their time, i want to see why (and believe it).  Why would the heroine really have sex out of wedlock?  Why would she endanger her life to try to catch the villain?  I don’t buy boredom as a motive for these things. (continued)

I assure you, Christina, it wasn’t your book.  It was NOT a Squawker book.  I have never thrown a book of yours at the wall; I’ve never found your plotting to be “illogical”, truly. 

The book was The Pledge (Helen Mittermeyer)--and I totally ranted about the historical characters weren’t even right. (Why I thought I would know--not sure--not exactly a teacher of British history.  But you the thing about critics--they’re all experts.)

I only mention the book now just so you will stop thinking I would be ballsy enough to get on your blog and tell you I thought one of your books sucked.  Right.  What kind of crazy do you think I am?

I second not liking rushed endings!  I feel cheated, having invested 320+ pages of time and energy into the conflict to have it wrap in just a few pages.

And I agree I hate it when the hero is mean to the heroine.  That’s part of one book trait that will make me put the book down:  the conflict is too complete.  The hero disrespects the heroine in some basic way.  There is one author in particular that I’ve just had to give up on because her books have this level of conflict.  There is no “ember” that stays alive in the hopeless situation.  That’s just too much trauma for me.

This is very interesting, Christina.

I mean, I’ve been bored before, but that doesn’t make me want to sleep around or possibly get killed.

I’m not saying I never want to see it, I just want to believe it, and not think that the H & H are just being stubborn/stupid/trying to provide action to get me to the next sex scene.

I just read Laura Lee Guhrke’s And Then He Kissed Her.  And I loved it!  The heroine is a good girl who has an affair.  But I believed it and understood why she would do it and why her feelings changed.  That’s all I ask of an author, make me understand and believe it, even if I think the character is making a mistake.

Don’t worry, Ms. Hellion.  Xtina thinks EVERY book is hers

I have to agree with the comment on writers “hitting the marks”.  So much fiction is formulaic and repetitive.  I once noticed that the majoririty of romance I read got to the first sex scene in Chapter 13.  What is so great about chapter 13?  Could it not wait to 14?  Was 12 too soon?

So far, I have only come across a few books where I couldn’t get past the first few chapters.  I don’t really remember the specifics except in one case, it was the writing style.  Every 3rd sentence (I am not exaggerating, I counted) ended with an exclamation point.  Frankly, when you are on page 3 there really can’t be that much exciting things happening to warrant this many exclamation points.

The most recent wall-banger had way to many extraneous people.  Yeah, I get that the h/h have family and friends but I really don’t need the life story of every person in the h/h’s graduating class.

My word is reation75.  Well Xtina, I’d say you will get many more reactions than that.

I just remembered I quit reading one writer’s books because almost everything page had some comment in parenthesis.  It was soooo annoying.

(You can’t imagine how much I hate that!)

Hi Everybody!

I’ll try to be short here.  Predictability is the hardest thing for me to get past.  With some authors it’s worse than others.  (No one here in the hen house is guilty of this.) I need the unexpected twists and turns for the book to be memorable.

The other thing is when the heroine says she can’t stay with the guy. She just knows he doesn’t love her.  Here the hero has done incredible gestures, been there for her, heck, saved her life once or twice, and yet he hasn’t said the words, so she’s ready to chuck the whole relationship.  I usually end up yelling at those women and feel like slapping some sense into them. 

It’s just kinda irritating, I didn’t think women were that silly and shallow.

I’m going to be brief here so I don’t have to cut and paste and lose stuff....

I have to echo what Prudence says about predictability.

I also have a problem with books that obviously follow a formula and every interaction mimics folding up a cardboard box.  You MUST fold flap A before folding flap B.  BORING!

That’s it!  That was the brilliant piece I lost before!

I have been reading romance for 38 years.  I still prefer romance over any other genre; although I love when romance is mixed into a fantasy novel or mystery novel. I remember when The Flower and The Flame came out. I was 13 years old and I loved it. But suddenly every romance novel had explicit sex. Some of the new novels were great and some were not very good.

Once a subgenre becomes popular, publishers flood the market with some very poorly written books in that subgenre.  Frankly readers want a well written book, regardless of the subgenre.

Recently, I saw a book by a new author. The title was such an obvious attempt to obtain some Mary Janice Davidson’s readers. Now the book might be fresh and exciting, but I was convinced that it would be a poor imitation of Mary Janice Davidson. I would much rather read a well written historical novel over a poorly written vampire novel.

I think that most readers prefer a high quality of writing. We want stories with great characters, a fascinating plot and sexual tension.

But even if every vampire novel being published was well written, readers will get bored. We want something fresh and exiting. We want variety.

But even if every vampire novel being published was well written, readers will get bored. We want something fresh and exiting. We want variety.

I don’t follow.  Why would “well written” lack originality or diversity?  IMO, there are different ways to be “well written”—including the (sometimes) dichotomy between a good writer vs a good storyteller.

(I meant to submit comment earlier but got sidetracked) . . . I’m nowhere near to the Romance diehard reader that I’ve seen on some blogs/BB’s but I think I know what I like to read.  What I don’t like reading:

1.  Too much sex for no reason.  AND if they do get it on early on (heheh, sounds like a dirty song) - don’t take the shortcut at still not making the H/h work for their HEA.

2.  Not enough Foreplay . . .uh, ie. sexual & emotional tension ---- again, refer back to reason 1.

3.  More More ROMANCE!!!  I love the small gestures of love just as much the sweeping grand statements --- more focus on the couple. 

4.  Realistic conflicts (both internal and external) for the h/h and the time period its set in.

MsHellion, I never thought you’d deliberately say something rude, just figured that after ten years you’d forgotten who wrote the book. I should have figured if you were that passionate about it, the name and author were burned onto your brain. I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have assumed.

And not that I thought no one else would ever think of my plot, but hers is in the same time period. That’s bizarre.

As for your question about what kind of crazy I think you are ... well, look at the people you hang around with. 

Hey, I represent that statement!

firefly,

I was just trying to say that readers like a variety in genres and authors. Nora Roberts is a good writer, but I could not survive on a steady diet of Nora Roberts novels. I would be bored out of my mind. I think that there are some people who occasionally read a novel a few times a year. They might read just one author or one genre. But I am someone who reads a lot. I read several novels a week. I don’t want to read four vampire novels in a row.

I am not certain if a great storyteller is different from what I consider well written. When I use the term well written, I am definitely not talking about sentence structure and grammar. I am talking about a great story, which requires well developed characters, setting, tension, and plot. Different writers have different strengths. Some writers create great sexual tensions; others create enticing plots. As long as the story captures the reader, it is well written

I was just trying to say that readers like a variety in genres and authors. Nora Roberts is a good writer, but I could not survive on a steady diet of Nora Roberts novels. I would be bored out of my mind. I think that there are some people who occasionally read a novel a few times a year. They might read just one author or one genre. But I am someone who reads a lot. I read several novels a week. I don’t want to read four vampire novels in a row.

I am not certain if a great storyteller is different from what I consider well written. When I use the term well written, I am definitely not talking about sentence structure and grammar. I am talking about a great story, which requires well developed characters, setting, tension, and plot. Different writers have different strengths. Some writers create great sexual tensions; others create enticing plots. As long as the story captures the reader, it is well written

I read many different types of books- horror, mystery, young adult, picture books(I would read them even if I didn’t have kids, some of these books are just outstanding), chick lit, non-fiction, historicals,graphic novels, and of course romances.

The thing that irritates me the most and makes me complain to anyone around at the time who will listen is the way some of previously favorite historical authors have become mystery writers. These books are packaged as romantic mysteries but have little or no romance in them which I am sorry but I would have read Greg Iles or Steve Thayer if I wanted a straight mystery and still I would have gotten more romance.

I understand that they might want to write something different but there is no more light dialogue, chemistry between the characters and charm of a nice story well told. It is like they feel ashamed about their previous books and are now going to be serious authors. It feels forced.

I’m dashing this off quickly, and I don’t have time to read the other comments, so if I repeat someone, I’m terribly sorry.

The biggest probably I have with romance novels today is the heroine.  So many times I will not pick up a book if the back cover describes the heroine as “feisty, high-spirited, bold, independent,” or any other like adjective.  Not because I don’t think heroines should be bold and brassy, but because a lot of authors try to make her this way by making her a shrew and I can’t like her or identify with her.  There is no reason she can’t be independent AND nice.

I am not speaking of any of the squawk authors when I speak of this. All of your contemps are nice and spicy.

As for reviews, I do read them usually only to find out more of what the story is about. Some bad reviews have gotten me to buy books, usually the “there was too much sex in this book” sort. I know, pervy of me but there it is.
For A WELL PLEASURED LADY:

Review #1 — “The first sexual encounter can only be viewed as rape.”
Review #2 — “Also, with the “forced seduction” it was definitely not rape.”
Ooo, must read THAT book again.

I like that more more authors feel free to go farther sexually in their books. True some don’t do it as gracefully as others but at least it is out there. Unintentional pun. I remember trolling ebay for any romantic erotica out there after my first Ellora’s Cave or Secrets book and back then(5 or 6 years ago) there were not so many choices.

I have to agree with Phyllis Lamken, except my peeve is with romantic comedies.  Some just feel as if the author said hey I can do this, and sat down and threw everything funny into the computer.  Slapstick, stand-up, vaudeville, sarcasm meant to be haha funny, etc.  These are the wallbangers for me.  I dearly LOVE a book with humor in it, but it has to stem from the characters, scene and setting.  Not just a shabby retake on I Love Lucy, with the bedroom doors open. 

I also miss the really “dense” books.  I know “white space” is the new mantra in publishing these days, but i sorely miss the long rich paragraphs that plunged us into the characters or the conflict.  I want more than he said, she said.  I want the lavish characterization of LaVyrle Spencer books, which (note to pub. house execs) still fly off the bookshelves!  When i buy a book, i want to buy WORDS not WHITE SPACE!  arghhh.  Ok, stepping down from soap box. 

I never have thrown a book. I have too much respect for them but if they lose my attention I have no problem moving on to the next one. So many books and so little time.

Excellent historical that I could not put down- The Raven Prince by Elizabeth Hoyt and Connie liked it too so you know it must be good! She said so on the back cover of the book.

I read a lot of different genres, and I don’t think I have any specific requirements for the romances I read except these three:

I have to like and care about the characters.  I started a non-squawker book a few months ago and all I could think of was “wow, is she (the main character) annoying.” Needless to say, I didn’t read any further.  Characters I don’t like usually either spend way too much time describing their physical perfections or do things that are stupid.  As in you’d slap a friend for doing something that dumb.

It HAS to be well-written and I don’t like narration that is too chatty.  Some is okay, but not every sentence five words or less.

It can’t be boring.  I just finished 3/4 of a book billed as a great new gothic-style book.  3/4 of the way through - it NEVER got any more interesting.  And I was waiting.  Optimistically.

But these are just my opinions and we’ve all got some.

I could give you a list of things I don’t like, but the reality is for much of the list, I could give you book that I love that is guilty of the thing I hate. I don’t like glaring historical inaccuracies, but I have keepers that contain some. I don’t like adulterous main characters, but I can name some cherished books that have them. I don’t like ditzy heroines, unless they are created by a writer that makes me laugh myself silly. If I like the author’s voice, if I fall in love with the characters, if I can enter into the world of the fiction, I can ignore bothersome details. If the author’s voice fails to appeal to me, if I cannot connect with the characters, if the world is one that I don’t want to visit, I don’t finish the book. And generally I cross the author off my list.

Continued

I have several dozen romance, mystery, and women’s fiction authors who are auto-buys for me. For the most part, these are writers that I have been reading for years and whose books I love--mostly. Do I like all their books equally? Of course not. Some speak to me more powerfully than others; some failed to live up to my expectations. But I could say the same thing about Emily Dickinson’s poems or Shakespeare’s plays. I didn’t stop reading Shakespeare because I hated Titus Andronicus, and I won’t stop reading an auto-buy author because a book impresses me as being a less than stellar offering.

I agree with Phyllis… I like diversity in my books. Everything used to be strictly historical… then the trend changed to contemporary and I made that switch. However, I got nervous when the trends went to the paranormal genre… until I got my hands on a couple of good ones. Now I enjoy the diversity that is out there and try not to close my mind to a new writer/genre.

I also agree that some authors throw themselves so deeply into an explicit sex scene that they miss out on the importance of the moments where the H/H simply walk down a lane/through the mall/into a restaurant holding hands. Those moments show the ability to cherish… and I think romance will truly blossom then.

Ohhh, this is a popular topic. I like books with REAL characters. It’s a bit hard to escape into a novel when the heroines aren’t believable (although I’m probably in the minority with this). But do they all have to be gorgeous, with great skin and perfect figures, intelligent and super confident in themselves and their sexuality? I mean, heaven forbid that someone may have a sexual dysfunction disorder.

Women come in all shapes, sizes, ages and personalitites, but you wouldn’t know it from the vast majority of books. Is it because most authors believe that alpha males would never fall in love with someone imperfect? That’s why I’m really looking forward to reading PFP (and the wait is killing me) and why I loved Lover Eternal (since the WARDen visited yesterday it seemed appropriate to mention a BDB book). Josie isn’t the traditionally slim Regency heroine and Mary, with her scarring, isn’t the picture perfect model. But Mayne and Rhage looked beyond that.

OK, rant over. Hope that all made sense.

orannia

PS My verification word is reason46...you’re probably all thinking I’ve lost mine. I’m looking for it, honest

WHEW that was a lot of romance commentary! But since you asked… there ARE some things which irritate me and make me twice shy about buying the next book:

- I agree that good writing makes a good book, but good writing involves SOME kind of realism on SOME fundamental level. I don’t like it when the entire book happens in the course of three days and by the end the h/h are in love and never fight again. This makes me want to barf.

to be ctd.

Well, somehow I managed to post most of my comments under the poll instead of here - not paying attention again - but all my points were made by others anyway.

I did forget one thing that knitterlynn brought up - ending too soon! I need a few pages after the “I love you” to feel the full reward for having stuck with the story for 300+ pages. I get very testy when the hero and heroine don’t really get together until the last page.

I’m also one of those people who reads the last few pages of the book well before I get there naturally - usually by the time I’m halfway through the book, I’ve read the end. If the end is satisfying, I’ll finish it. If it’s not, I usually won’t. I’ve even been known to read just the last page in the store, and not buy it if that’s when the HEA is achieved. I need time to savor it, people!

- historical and scientific inaccuracy, like others said. my tolerance for this varies. I’ve been trying to get into vampires, like J.R. Ward’s novels, and while they are entertaining, I’m sorry but I just cannot seem to get over the living for a thousand years thing. Maybe because it’s blending a fantasy world with the setting of the real modern world. But the fact that these vampires age soooo slowly, and that they’re basically only the fifth or sixth generation of their species since they could have possibly been “invented” by evolution, and that grandchildren would look the same age as their grandparents, and that they have lived through the middle ages and the Spanish Inquisition and all the world wars, and just the very basic fact that time for them is on such a different scale than time for us - all these things are so elemental to their development that you just can’t treat a story like that the same way. The more you try to meld it with the real world, the more problems come up.
AGGHH sorry, I need help with this concept.

to be ctd.

- when authors underestimate readers’ intelligence (like with inaccuracies). lately it seems every book has a kind of “summarizing” moment when the h or h realizes he/she’s fallen in love. And then they provide a whole list of why they love the other. First of all, we’ve read the book, we know what they’ve done and how it’s affected you, second of all, if love can be portrayed in list form, what makes it unique for that person? what’s going to stop them from falling in love with the next person that does all that stuff? and it’s even worse when it’s physical characteristics, because physical stuff will mostly change.

end rant.

Teresa: Did you know that the latest Anne Stuart comes out next week? It is Ice Blue. I love Anne Stuart. ( I own a copy of The Demon Count) I also liked Carla Kelly.

flip

I ignore review too. Some are inclined to give good reviews just for the books, etc.

I do listen to word of mouth though - friends, family and some blogs.

Sex for the sake of sex is boring. I have to care about the characters or nothing works.

Ok, now that I’ve had the chance to take the time to read all the blogs, I understand better. 

Since we all have experienced that book that “kidnaps” us and whisks us away to the point that when we close the book, all we can say is “Wow”, we sub-consciously measure other books against it.  That is not true for all, but I believe for most. We set the standards higher and higher for our authors, we want it all.  We’re a pretty demanding audience. 

I love Romance.  Happily Ever After can never get old.

I love this topic! I’ve realized that I really read romance novels for the characters. If the author makes me care about the characters, it really doesn’t matter to me if the plot is improbable. If I don’t care about the characters, the best plot in the world won’t get me to finish the book.

There are a few plot lines that I just don’t like, unless they’re just extremely well written. I don’t like secret babies. I don’t like characters who cheat. I don’t like it when the hero and heroine start out married (either to each other or to others). And for some reason, I really just can’t read another regency where he’s a spy for the Crown. But that’s just me...doesn’t mean there aren’t great books out there with those plot lines.

I do read Amazon reviews all the time. I automatically disregard some of the well known reviewers. (There is one in particular who has never met a book she didn’t like.) I look for the reviewers to mention things I like or don’t like in books, regardless of how the reviewer felt about them. (For example, if the reviewer raves about the book because the author leaves the couple at the bedroom door, I’ll know I probably won’t like the book.)

Oh Phyllis, thanks for the heads up!  A new Anne Stuart and a new Tami Hoag all in one week!  Bliss!!!

First off, what an excellent dialogue this is.  Thanks Christina, brilliant blog topic!

Ok, what I hate about romance novels is two things, weak heroines and heroines who are repeatedly made fools of.  I love strong, smart mouthed, opinionated women who don’t act like fools when an attractive man enters the room.  Why must they fall apart at the sight of a handsome man?  Why can’t the man fall apart?

susanna in alabama said...” I get very testy when the hero and heroine don’t really get together until the last page...I need time to savor it, people!”

Okay! I heard you and Lynn. I’m an author who loves to wind things up, and once I had my editor say, “I want more at the end.” I said, “More what?” And she said, “I don’t know. Just ... more.” So I went in and worked up another page or so just to slow the pace, and I try and remember to add a sentence here and there at the end for the savor. I’m doing copy edits now, so thanks for the reminder!

Theresa, Anne Stuart is wonderful. But I haven’t read Carla Kelly, and you’ve sold me.

Phyllis, I won THE DEMON COUNT, too! And THE DEMON COUNT’S DAUGHTER.

Honestly:

I am sick of lords and rich men as heroes.  They can be done well--squawkers do, as do the word wenches--but too often the person becomes little more than his title and his wealth, with perhaps some Freudian mother issues tacked on.

I don’t like misunderstandings as plots.  They work sometimes, but I don’t think they’re important enough to sustain my interest for an entire novel.

I don’t have a problem with heroines who are virgins, but any time we have a heroine whose heart has NEVER gone pitter-patter for a man except the hero, I find myself rolling my eyes.

I hate it when the “independent” heroine manages to only get herself in trouble, which the hero must then untangle her from.

And I hate it when I know what the proper resolution for the story is, and I have to tap my foot for two hundred pages while the hero and heroine stumble around in the dark, not seeing it.

Finally, I hate it when I close a book and say, “Well, I give that couple three years.” I need to believe that they’re not only in love, but that they have learned to communicate enough not to fall into the same stupid patterns.

Okay.  I’ll bite.  I LOVE ANNE STUART.  But what is THE DEMON COUNT?

Her first book.

What makes or breaks a book for me is the ending. I can read a book, and fall in love with the characters, the plot, even the hideous step-sister, but sometimes an ending falls flat. I want the sweet talk, the promises of forever and ever, and most importantly for the hero and heroine to say I love you out loud to one another. Then there are times when the characters fail to inspire me, the plot drags, and no justice in the world can make me care what the hideous step-sister actually did; but given the right ending with all the afore-mentioned requisites, I can keep a book on my bookshelf forever.

Why are endings so important to me? I have journeyed along with these characters, gone inside their heads as a reader, and I need to see how much they have changed, how much they have grown, and how even if for just one moment, they are willing to believe in the magic of love and promises.

The Demon Count isn’t Ms. Stuart’s first book. If I remember correctly, Barret’s Hill has the honour of being that.

And Xtina, could you let me know if you got my emails? I tried through a couple venues (here and your website) but have not heard anything back. Honestly, I’m not trying to stalk you!

i’m a reader who has read literally hundreds of romance novels and obviously, I am very easily pleased. There have only been three occassions where I didn’t finish the book.

One occassion is where i did finish the book but i really wish i hadn’t. the entire book had been so so, but the end was completely ridiculous. it had all the cheesy trappings that give romance novels their bad rep. the hero chasing the herione down while she leaves on a train that leaves REALLY REALLY SLOWLY. the rain and thunder and clouds that miraculously clear when the hero and heroine clear up misunderstandings and share THE BIG KISS. it was awful.

the second and third occassion where i didn’t like the novel and didn’t even finish them were when the characters were boring. I’m not sure how to describe it, but they were just boring. For me personally, it isn’t the plot that makes the novel, but the characters. If i can’t love the characters, I can’t love the book.

but the squawkers don’t have to worry, i’ve never read a book where i didn’t fall in love with their characters.

The characteristic that I always figured bound the squawkers together is that you all are authors who are students of writing first and romance second.

There are oodles of “best-selling” romance authors out there who have mildly interesting plots, but resort to really hackneyed language and construction.  I don’t have a lot of patience for that.  I can be really flexible with plotting, sensitive topics, even uber angst (which I pretty much abhor in rl as well as well as fiction--if the only way you think you can write a book is to create a disfunctional incestuous family of drug fiends and horse thieves.....) but poorly written is poorly written.  And poorly researched---don’t get me started.  Typos and proofreading errors are completely excuseable to me.  But if an author uses a real person, place, or thing, I get real picky if it’s out of time, space or other dimension.

Part II to follow

Perhaps as an example, mostly because it was a best seller and he certainly wouldn’t care what I think, I recently read The Alienist by Caleb Carr on a recommendation.  Great plot.  Lousy writing, construction and background IMO.  I had to reread sentences, I was regularly yanked out of the book by his tangents (he needed, apparently, to use every last tidbit of research he found on turn of the century new york, relevant or not) and, rather than describe carriage rides around Manhattan, he seemed to be giving directions.  All in all, when I can’t get drawn into the story and create the visual image in my head, what good is it?

Is this even useful?

jennybrat, I’m working on my email an hour a day trying to get caught up. I don’t know where you are, but I’ll be there soon.

SherryFM, yes, that is useful because yes, I hate it when an author waves his research like a red flag. And I have to tell you, when I come up with great research, the temptation to include it SOMEHOW is huge.

The only thing that really came to bug me about romance these days is that all books are part of a series.

This is of course a taste thing, but I am a “one-book-reader” and it really annoys me when I detect the next storylines introduced in the book I am currently reading. Since we are supposed to be completely honest I might add that I feel slightly manipulated to actually stay with an author. This is of course legitimate, but I often think that the books I love actually make me buy the next book of an author, not the promise of seeing yet again four sisters/cousins/friends etc. finding the love of their lifes.  I never read romance series as a whole big story, but I pick the books that interest me. Even if they belong to a series. Sometimes it does have an impact on the reading pleasure, sometimes it doesn´t.

This is of course just my personal preference, but I´d really like to know why series´ are so popular and why writers prefer writing them over standalones.

Phyllis—Thanks for the heads up on the latest Anne Stuart. I ordered it this morning from Amazon. Love her!

Christina—You’ll really like Carla Kelly. A great book to start with is Miss Whittaker Makes A List. Those who like a healthy dose of history with their romance will like Kelly because she writes a lot about the Napoleanic war and the effect of the war on her heroes & heroines. She also tends to write about people who have “real” problems to overcome and who are not lords/ladies.

Teresa

Lina,
I think I’m one of those rare authors who definitely prefers to write “standalone” books.  I have written three different “two book series” (duets?) but they all came out of an organic growth of the storyline from the first book.  None of them were planned ahead of time.

I like writing “standalones” the best because I get really excited about entering a whole new world with a whole new set of characters with each book.  I feel like I can put my whole heart into that story and those characters without worrying about leaving a bunch of loose ends to be tied up in the next book. 

I also like reading standalones the best, although there are certainly some fine series out there.  (HARRY POTTER and the Charlaine Harris SOOKIE STACKHOUSE books are two of my favorites, along with many books by my fellow Squawkers).  I can totally handle a very loosely related series like La Dodd’s GOVERNESS books.  It’s almost to the point now where you have to read series or you won’t have anything to read.  (MORE BELOW!)

I’ve started to blog on this eccentricity of mine a few times but I didn’t want to be tarred and feathered by all the series fans It makes me feel like a little bit of a creative freak in the current publishing climate. 

I don’t believe a lot of romance classics of the 80’s and 90’s (Laura Kinsale’s FLOWERS FROM THE STORM, etc.) would have been written if the author had been worried about carrying them over into a series.

Teresa, I love your books and I always considered it a real treat that many of them were standalones. I think it does something to the story and the hero/heroine that series´ don´t, but I am not sure I can put my finger on it.

It´s not that I actually mind series, but like you I enjoy entering a new world with a new book.

I´d really love a blog about standalones vs. series, where people could honestly share why they prefer one over the other.  You think it would turn into a too heated debate?

I will probably definitely do it in the near future, Lina!  You’ve given me courage

Can I be blunt?  I hate it when series are set up to “tempt” the buyer.  I enjoy series, and I enjoy stand alones (especially now when everything seems to be part of a series).  If I like an author’s work, I’ll buy her books whether or not she’s set me up.  In fact, cliffhanger endings are a bit annoying because it kind of ruins the HEA for me.  The HEA is the payoff in reading a romance, and if there’s no time to enjoy it, then it feels like reading the book was a waste of time.  If I’m immediately jerked to worrying about the next couple, then the “ahh” feeling of finishing a romance goes away.  I also feel like series that go on too long (and with characters who all come back) get boring because so much page space simply does not further anything ie. plot or character development.  Trilogies/Quartets are usually a good length for a series.  Connie was masterful in her historical series in that she was able to keep the previous characters pretty much absent in sequels until the big climax in book 3.  Gave more room to concentrate on subesequent couples.  Anyway, just saying.

I’m late to the site as usual. I read alot because I’m single and have the time.

Bad editing bugs me. There have been quite a few books that I haven’t been able to get finished and I’m not really sure why.

I usually only read reviews when I can’t find any other information on the book.

If I like the story, I like the series. I started reading Nora Roberts a long time ago, but I haven’t read any of her books in quite a while. I’ve got all of her J.D. Robb “In Death” series; all 27 of them. I love the series and reread them all the time. Course I also like the books by the authors in this blog.

I don´t like when the whole story takes 3-4 days. Of course, I believe in love at fist sight, but, come on, true friendship, deep understanding and everlasting love in half an hour?